For small businesses, growth rarely comes from a single source. Funding and marketing sit at the center of this challenge, but when paired together, they are most effective. The logic is simple: get the capital you need, invest in growth, and scale faster. But the conversation between Jason Brewer and Ami Kassar on The Multifunding Podcast revealed that there’s more to it than just moving quickly. There’s a hidden trade-off most businesses might not be considering, and without careful planning, this can restrict growth.
In this conversation, there was alignment between funding and marketing. These two functions often live in separate worlds, but their success is closely tied. Funding creates opportunity, and marketing gives it direction. If you have capital without a plan, you might end up fueling short-term wins that don’t last. And if your marketing is strong but your finances can’t support growth, momentum stalls. Real progress happens when both sides move in sync.
This connection extends beyond just the strategy — it’s about clarity. When business owners understand their numbers and their audience, and the story those two tell together, they can make decisions with confidence. Clean financials, clear cash flow, and solid customer insights give you the visibility to choose the right funding path and spend your marketing dollars wisely. The businesses that marry those two perspectives, financial discipline and market awareness, tend to grow faster and stronger.
Risk is part of the equation, too. Every company faces moments when they have to decide how much to stretch. Investing in new hires, new markets, or new campaigns can open doors, but only if it fits into a bigger picture. The urge to chase quick wins is real, especially when growth feels urgent, but pacing matters. Sustainable progress usually comes from thoughtful moves made at the right time.
That’s where an outside perspective can make a difference. Fresh eyes can spot blind spots and opportunities that feel invisible from the inside. Even seasoned teams benefit from someone stepping in to challenge assumptions and ensure their funding and marketing decisions align with the company’s long-term goals.
The question isn’t just “How much capital do I need?” or “Which marketing channels should I invest in?” It’s “How can funding and marketing work together to support long-term growth?” When aligned thoughtfully, these two elements can drive the strongest, most sustainable results for a business.
In this conversation on The Multifunding Podcast, Jason Brewer and Ami Kassar share insights on balancing funding and marketing strategically and why thoughtful alignment often drives long-term growth.
Video Transcript:
Build a Marketing Foundation
Ami Kassar:
So happy to have my guest today, Jason Brewer. Jason Brewer has been a friend for a long time. Jason is the founder and CEO of Brolik, a local Philadelphia-based marketing agency that helps small to medium-sized businesses think through and execute their marketing plans, not just in Philadelphia but around the country. Jason, how are you, buddy?
Jason Brewer:
I'm good, Ami. I'm good. Thanks for asking.
Ami Kassar:
Jason, tell us, what do you guys do?
Jason Brewer:
So at Brolik, we are a Growth Marketing Agency. We're oftentimes brought in when a small business, typically between that 2 and 15 million mark in revenue, has kind of run out of the word-of-mouth referral and networking type business that's coming in to really grow their pipeline. And they look at us as how can we build sort of an inbound engine for growth? And we come in as a strategist and also help them put together a roadmap, a plan for growth, and execute that as sort of an external marketing department. So it's really, really good for small businesses.
Ami Kassar:
So how do you do that? What are some of the tools that you use for that?
Jason Brewer:
Initially, we have a strategy phase that we go through for the first eight weeks when we work with the client. So it's very much as any good consultant that comes in, any good advisor, we're asking a lot of questions. We're trying to understand the business model, any bottlenecks within the business that would hold back growth. We're making sure that the company really understands who their target audience is. So we do an in-depth target audience analysis, build out personas, talk to individuals that they've worked with, past clients, current clients and customers. We do a competitive audit where we'll look at the entire landscape of businesses that they're competing against and what's everybody doing in terms of their web presence, their positioning and messaging, their pricing, how they're packaging their services or products. And then we kind of put together a rollout plan. So there's a certain amount of our experience and our process. There's a lot of tools that we use to source target audience interviewees and things like that and do keyword research and website auditing and the things that we need to do to put this strategy phase together. But it's just an understanding of what's the information we need to know and absorb about the business and about their market landscape and where do they want to go in the future and putting that all together.
Ami Kassar:
What are the comments, some of the most common mindset limitations you think business owners and entrepreneurs have when they think about getting engaged with you?
Jason Brewer:
I would say one of the biggest ones is one of the biggest limitations or mindset issues. A lot of businesses have worked with an agency or some type of agency partner, freelance consultant before, and the experience was not a good one typically. So they're coming in looking for a breath of fresh air, something better, but having the scars of a past experience. So we're limited in terms of budget and limited in terms of time. There's not a lot of patience built into that when you've already had a bad experience with someone. So I think just the blinders on in terms of I need progress immediately, whether that's I need leads in the door in the first month, I need a return on investment immediately. It's very short-term focused, and I think that that's dangerous because what we're trying to do is build a better business and build a better marketing foundation for three to five years out.
And if we're solely focused on what can we do now, let's put all our eggs in this immediate short-term basket. It's like investing. It's a dangerous way to think. And so that's one of the big ones is just talking to companies, making them feel comfortable about the timeline and good things take time and let's put the infrastructure in place so that when we do start driving leads, you can close the business and your pricing and your positioning are correct and you're reaching the right people. So yeah, that's a big one. Another one is just coming in with an open mind. I mean, if you came to me, you might say, Hey, we really need to work on our thought leadership on LinkedIn, or we really need to get into paid search or whatever. It might be like you have specific channels or tactics that you have in mind that you want to do, and maybe you have some decent marketing experience or maybe you don't.
But a lot of times there's potential clients come in with assumptions about what they should be doing or what has worked or hasn't, and they start crossing things off the list. But these companies should be coming to us and saying, tell me where I need to be. Tell me where the opportunities are in the market that none of my competitors are realizing. Where are our strengths and how can we apply those? Where will my dollar get stretched in the best way? So it's like come in to engage and listen and think differently and maybe don't immediately cross things off the list or make assumptions that'll hurt you. When it comes to marketing.
Understanding Marketing Strategy
Ami Kassar:
Jason, do you work anywhere in the world across the country, in the Philly area? Where do you work?
Jason Brewer:
Most of our clients are in the northeast, whether it's Philly, DMA, or outside of that. But we do have a national reach. We have clients all over the country. It's really easy for us to provide services and work with clients in California and Texas and Minnesota, wherever it might be. Not as much international, mostly national. And we do have a really good, I mean, 21 years of experience in the Philadelphia market. So clients do like to work with us regionally, especially if they have a neighborhood or regional focus with their services, with their business. So yeah, generally a Philadelphia DMA kind of footprint.
Ami Kassar:
And how do you think a client should pick a marketing agency? I mean, you have a lot of competition, right? So how should a client evaluate a marketing agency? We have a lot of our primary competition is people who go to 5,000 banks instead of us. Okay, yes. So we all have competition.
Jason Brewer:
The first thing I would say is to talk to three to five agencies to start with. You're not trying to talk to agencies that are all the same. I usually will advise a prospect. I'll ask them, are you talking to smaller firms? Are you talking to larger firms? Are you talking to specialists? Are you talking to generalists like growth consultants like we are? You want them to get a feel for what a lower cost, lower touch offer looks like, agency looks like. Maybe they're used to also cobbling together freelance specialists that they oversee. But I really want a prospect to get a good feel for what the options are. And then I help them to understand where we fit in that, where we're really good with a small business who has maybe one central marketing director or marketing manager, but not a full marketing team, web team, SEO specialist, social media manager.
We become that marketing and web team for those businesses. So I try to have them understand, are we a fit based on those factors and what you're going to get from us in terms of high touch, very strategic business consultants, not just tactical marketers. We're looking at return on investment and growth strategies for your business and helping you navigate growth over time. We're not just throwing up some paid social ads, but we may be more expensive on an hourly rate perspective or on a retainer perspective. So helping to coach those prospects who might not have experienced all this before, kind what their options are in the market. I think I always try to do that in the first conversation.
Ami Kassar:
And how do you help people balance? That's not easy between short-term and long-term thinking.
Jason Brewer:
It's not easy because everyone definitely steers towards the short term. But I think one thing I try to do often from an initiatives perspective, we lay out our initiatives on a monthly basis, and we're always trying to balance short-term wins, which tend to come from channels that are high intent, paid search. People that are in the market shopping right now, they're going to come in through a Google Ad and maybe you close that business in a week or they check out on the site that day. You want to get some of those short wins. You want to drive some of that revenue, but you're paying the most for those leads or for those conversions more than anything else. If you start a content strategy and you start building out content on LinkedIn or Meta or wherever it is you're answering and interacting on Reddit, whatever your strategy is, that might take 3, 6, 9 months to really take hold. But when it does, it could be driving leads at a fifth or a tenth of the cost of what you're paying for your paid search leads. So trying to showcase clients who have invested in the longer term strategies too, even if it's just the couple of hours a month, but do it consistently. What that can do over a year or two, it can be a building, a content hub that's very specific to your industry could be driving a ton of organic search traffic within a year.
If you invest in that starting today, 12 months from now, you'll be very happy you did if you had just dumped all your budget into paid search. Yeah, you'll get your leads each month, but you're paying an arm and a leg for it.
Ami Kassar:
Well, Jason, how do you find business owners and entrepreneurs are thinking in this economy today?
Jason Brewer:
I think even just as of the last week or so, everyone is really cautious looking for answers, unsure of what the next few months are going to look like. There are businesses out there that see it as an opportunity right now to their business model. They have some sort of advantage or leverage in this situation where whether they feel very confident that they will survive the next six months and thrive. Something about their business will actually be propelled with the current economic situation and the current tariff conversations. But I think a lot of small businesses, I'm feeling just they're just trying to get some clarity right now. What's going to happen next? How bad is it going to get? Do I need to just save as much cash, hold as much cash as I can on the sidelines? Do I need to start cutting costs or do I see this as an opportunity right now where build awareness marketing is cheaper during downtimes like this because everyone pulls back their budgets and it's not as competitive. So are you going to saturate the market at a time when it's cheaper? So there's different ways to look at it, but I think generally everyone is very cautious is probably the word I would use.
Ami Kassar:
So Jason, if you were sitting in front of a bunch of entrepreneurs today who are thinking about what's next for their business and you were trying to give them some general advice about their broad marketing strategy, what would you recommend they think about? I don't know. That's a general question because everyone specific, but just generally.
Jason Brewer:
Yeah, so it's very difficult to have one broad suggestion to all business owners. If I was to offer something or to recommend something, it would be to, if they hadn't in a long time considered, am I targeting the right audience? Am I finding the right customers and clients? Is my positioning, my pricing and my packaging, connecting with those people? How are people feeling and interacting with my brand overall? When they find me online? How are they finding me? Basically, if you haven't had your marketing positioning product assessed in a while, I think it's a really smart thing to every few years have someone from the outside come in and take a look and ask the basic questions and challenge the basic assumptions.
And one thing we do, and this is for vetted prospects that we know will be a good fit for us, and that match the financial requirements and size requirements that we work with. We do something called a five day marketing audit, and it really helps us to identify any major bottlenecks, ask questions that might really get them thinking about what's next for them, talk to them about their business economics. I think that that may be one thing that I see the most is thriving businesses. Businesses that have done well, that are profitable, that are doing millions in revenue sometimes are unclear about what they're willing to pay for a new customer or what they should be.
Budgeting for marketing and just having a conversation, having someone look in and talk through their customer economics and understand what they should be spending and what they should be expecting from that is just a really good sort of educational step. So something we offer through the five day marketing audit, other consultants and marketers out there may have other versions of that, but don't get isolated within your silo, within your business for too long, without looking for outside experts to come in, even if it's just a day or two session or something, and just get you reinvigorated and really rethinking things and making sure that not just your marketing approach, but your business and your business approach, your business strategy isn't getting stale.
Understanding Multifunding
Ami Kassar:
I love it. I think that's really wise, counsel. So
Jason Brewer:
I know we've both been running businesses for a long time and working with a lot of small business owners, so I just kind of wanted to ask you some questions in terms of business owners who are approaching, looking for funding, how to know they're ready for funding things to look out for. So if you wouldn't mind just sort of bringing everyone up to speed, what can you tell us what multi-funding?
Ami Kassar:
Sure. So we really try to advocate for business owners and entrepreneurs through the funding process. It's complicated and there are a lot of paths you could go through. And we want to make sure that our clients get the best possible loan that's right for their needs at the best possible terms. And our job is to hold their hand through the process and help 'em get a good outcome.
Jason Brewer:
And so for a small business owner that thinks they're ready to scale, what are the first steps they would normally take with you or what steps should they take with you?
Ami Kassar:
Again, people come to us for all kinds of reasons. You might come to us because you're ready to scale. You might come to us because you feel you need a line of credit and just every business should have a line of credit. You might come to us because you took on some expensive debt without realizing it and you'd like to consolidate it and make it better, or you want to buy out a partner or buy a business. There are all kinds of reasons people come to us, but really what we want to do is start with a conversation. Businesses change over time and financing markets change over time. So our job is to understand where you're at, what you're trying to accomplish, what your financial situation is, to understand the markets, and then to help you find the best fit for what your needs are if there is a fit. And
Jason Brewer:
How do you find that right fit? I mean, do you just have a lot of relationships in place and how do you make that connection and figure out what business fits with what funding source?
Ami Kassar:
So we've been at this for 15 years, and I always tell our clients we don't know everything. We know a lot and funding markets are fairly rational things, and typically we know where a loan or is most likely to fit, but we also don't go out looking for a needle in the haystack. So if someone comes to us with a situation that they're trying to accomplish, which we don't think is realistic, we tell them that, but we also tell them we don't know everything. Some of it's more art than some of the science, how relationships definitely help, but it is just really digging in and understanding where the business is, what they're trying to accomplish, what they need the money for. Sometimes what they think and what they actually need are two different things, and we help them through that process.
Jason Brewer:
I've seen with our clients sometimes that it's almost like they didn't realize they needed it. So it's not always, I guess, that they are identifying the need and coming to you, right? Sometimes it could be that they're trying to understand, understand they're learning. It's a learning sort of process. What are those moments?
Ami Kassar:
Need is a strong word, Jason. So every business has to decide how fast they want to scale and how much risk they want to take in the process of scaling. So I think to say you need, financing is probably a bit of a strong word. If you decided you have certain goals and you have the risk appetite and it's appropriate to take on the financing, then it can really help you.
Jason Brewer:
Right. That makes sense. Yeah. I guess need would be a strong word. It might actually identify a business that is not in a good place to take on funding, but what are
Ami Kassar:
Businesses are like humans, and sometimes life is great and we go through growth spurts and we're feeling good and we're feeling healthy, and sometimes we get sick or we land up in hospital. Sometimes unexpected crises happen. If you are a business today that's impacted by the China trade wars, you've got real problems that you weren't expecting three months ago, and there are different instruments to help you through that. So there's not one size fits all. It's a long journey, and we're here to help the entrepreneurs at every step along the way as best as we can.
Jason Brewer:
How much of your business is SBA type loans, and I guess what are the key benefits to that?
Ami Kassar:
We use SBA about 90% of the time, not exclusively, but about 90% of the time. I think SBA is the best kept secret in government. One of the best kept secrets in government, the primary benefit of it is that for working capital growth capital, buy at a partner, buy a business, they're going to give you 10 year money, and they're going to have lower collateral requirements than a bank would without the spay guarantee and lower down payment requirements. So it is a tool that gives a business owner or an entrepreneur a lot more flexibility when necessary.
Jason Brewer:
Nice. And yeah, the SBA loan to acquire a business. Can you give me an example or two of how that a company has used that as a vehicle to acquire?
Ami Kassar:
Acquire? Yeah. I mean, we've done a lot of that work the last couple of years. And basically, let's say Jason, you decided you wanted to go buy another marketing agency that was essentially exactly the same industry as yours. That would actually be considered an expansion loan, and you could do that with 0% down. Ordinarily it would be 10% down and the loan, there's an appraisal of the company. And let's say the company you're buying is valued at a million dollars and they're willing to lend you a million dollars for it, and you get a million dollar loan for 10 years and you get to buy the company.
Jason Brewer:
What are the funding options, I guess, what are the most common things that you connect business owners with in terms of funding?
Ami Kassar:
Again, in our world, we most commonly use the SBA
Because we think that's just the best instrument out there for most small business owners and entrepreneurs. That doesn't mean from time to time, we're using conventional financing or lines of credit or equipment financing or asset-based lending, et cetera, et cetera. There are thousands of companies out there pushing businesses into online lines of credit or short-term online loans or loans that you'll get the money in your bank in 24 hours or 48 hours. And in my opinion, puts most businesses in a debt trap. That's difficult to get out of, but if you're in that ecosystem, that's your ecosystem of financing. It's not my ecosystem of financing. I want to avoid that at all costs for our clients.
Understanding When and How to Seek Business Funding
Jason Brewer:
So I mean, I've been through this process with you a couple of times over the years. I mean, you guys helped us secure financing a number of times to grow, but for other business owners who have not been through this process before or haven't worked with you, can you tell me a little bit more about how you kind of walk through the initial stages, how you figure out their preparedness, I guess, for funding and the fit there? And I guess any sort of common red flags or questions that need to be answered that would help people prepare for this process?
Ami Kassar:
I mean, we want to start with a conversation, but if there's a common red flag, I always say to people, would you lend money to yourself? So that's a
Jason Brewer:
Good one.
Ami Kassar:
Being on top of your financials, having all your tax returns done, having your financial house in order, not pushing a ridiculous amount of personal expenses through your business, making sure there are no liens filed against your business that you're not even aware of. So there's always this tension. No one likes to pay Uncle Sam, and so people like to show no profit or losses on their tax returns, which is all sexy until you comes time to sell the company or get a loan. And so the more prepared you are, business owners generally hate doing bookkeeping and accounting. It's not why we got into business, but it's also a little bit like building a house without wiring or plumbing. And so you really need to pay attention to the stuff in order for it to work.
Jason Brewer:
What about an entrepreneur who's been denied before? Are there specific things, advice you would give to someone who's been denied for certain reasons?
Ami Kassar:
Yeah. First thing I would say in terms of SBA lending is SBA has a huge branding problem.
So you walk into the door, say your local Wells Fargo or Bank of America, and they tell you, you're not eligible for SBA financing. For whatever reason, you assume you're out. And that's just not the case. There are plenty of SBA lenders out there who might look at your loan, and sometimes you have to kiss a bunch of frogs before you meet a print. So if you were denied, why were you denied? Sometimes people don't even realize it. What were the reasons that you were denied? What were you applying for? And then does something have to be adjusted to make it work for you this time? Were you applying at the wrong place? Were you applying for the wrong type of loan? What was it you were trying to do?
Jason Brewer:
And so things like just the overall financial health credit score, how important are these types
Ami Kassar:
Of, those things matter, but they could also be dependent. Sometimes we'll do a completely projection based level. Sometimes we'll do a loan for a startup. These things are possible. Sometimes we'll do a turnaround loan, sometimes we'll do a debt recapitalization loan. Different banks have different appetites for different things. If we tell you, if we don't take you on as a client, it's because we truly don't think we can make your situation better. And that's not always an easy thing. Yesterday I had a call with a prospect who I passed on him as a client because I thought what he was trying to do was ridiculous. He was trying to squeak by so many rules and hope he didn't get caught. And what I said to him was, I, God bless you, if that works for you, great. But not on my watch, not under my time. We also won't do what I call last nail in the coffin lending here. So if someone needs money that's going to be so expensive and we don't see them having a path out of it, we'd rather push them to cut their expenses drastically than get that loan.
Jason Brewer:
So it's not always securing funding sometimes. I mean, it sounds like you guys are as much as an advisor in those situations as anything else. We get a lot of free advice. Yeah.
Ami Kassar:
Yeah
Jason Brewer:
I believe it. Well, that's interesting. On the sort of early stage company side, I'm guessing less of your businesses is startups, but
Ami Kassar:
We don't love it. But I want to be clear that there's different types of startups. If you're doing a tech startup where you don't think you're going to be profitable for 10 years, don't try to come and get SVA lending. But if you're doing a sort of brick and mortar, conventional startups, say, a couple of guys are going to start a marketing agency or a law firm or a retail store or something, you can get an SBA loan for that for a reasonable amount of money, but it's more work and we'll help you through it. We don't love doing them because they're paying, but we'll take care of the client.
Jason Brewer:
And outside of the early stage company, the startup realm, is there a specific moment in a business's trajectory that is a great time to come to you? Or is it just four or five different situations that are pretty common?
Ami Kassar:
I mean, every situation is a little bit different, but sometimes I ask the question, the million dollar question, if Uncle Joe popped a million dollars in your bank account today and you didn't know what you and told you, I had to use it to invest in things in your business in the next year that you're not doing today, and if you don't use it, he's taking it away. What would you do with the money? And usually people have a pretty big shopping list. Then the next question is, if those investments actually make sense, why aren't you doing them?
And so sometimes people know that there are a couple of key hires that they should make, but they're afraid to do it, to push them to get to the next level. And sometimes the debt can help 'em do that, but everyone has to find their own balance between risk and opportunity. And I always say, although I'm not particularly good at it lately, the most important thing to do is sleep well at night. And you have to find the right growth rate that's comfortable for you, for your risk appetite and your growth plans for the company. Sometimes the tortoise wins the race. I'm not a big fan of the Ink 5,000, which just encourages rapid top line growth. That doesn't cut it for me. So
Jason Brewer:
Yeah, I would agree with you there for sure. Is there anything that, I guess, business owners who are considering different funding options and they're maybe approaching you, is there anything that they should look out for? Maybe not with you guys, but with other financing offers.
Ami Kassar:
They're offering the money in your bank account in 24 hours? My cell phone number is 215-460-1950, Call me day or night and I'll talk you off the park.
Jason Brewer:
Wow. All right. Good to know. Thanks for sharing.
Ami Kassar:
Now, sometimes I'll get spam by those people because I put that number out, but that's okay. Just be mindful. I joke about it, but it's true. If you're in a hurry for lunch and you go to McDonald's, you could have indigestion for a few hours, but then you'll be over it if you're in a hurry and you make a bad financing choice, you could have indigestion for a few years or you could ruin your business. And I don't like to see people do that.
Jason Brewer:
What about trends in the small business funding landscape? What's happening right now? Are you seeing things pop up you didn't see five years ago? Everything's a little all over the place right now. Both. What are you seeing right now?
Ami Kassar:
Look, it's super confusing out there. Banks are getting in and getting out. Particularly if you're, you're in a business that heavily relies on imports from China, you're really scrambling right now. But what I can tell you is that in 2024, for several months leading up to the election, our business was largely frozen and we could hardly get anything done. And post the election, our business is on fire. And it doesn't really make that much sense to me because a lot of the fundamental problems we were seeing in companies in 24 haven't cutaway. Okay. But I take that as a hopeful sign for the economy. Jason, thank you so much, buddy.
Jason Brewer:
Yeah, great talking to you, Ami. Awesome.
